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michobebeOffline
3 Post subject: FRONT MOUNTED ENGINE Murcielago? is it possible?  PostPosted: Apr 06, 2008 - 03:38 AM
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Hi guys Very Happy , just gotta a simple question:

Do you think it's possible to BUILD A MURCIELAGO BASED ON A FRONT MOUNTED ENGINE COUPE ? (considering wheelbase is right) ?

I'm wondering if the engine and other front compartments, will they fit into the nose of a regular front engine coupe? if not any suggestions?

I dont want to use a fiero since a lot of work of stretching should be done and actualy all parts are almost 20 years old and it'll be much better to use a more recent car as a doner.

Thanks for your answer
 
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chase1Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 06, 2008 - 07:35 AM
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Its going to be very difficult to fit an accurate Murcielago kit on any front engine car. There is just not enough room in the front of the car to fit the engine under the hood with out changing the hood-line.
Dont rule out Fieros because of their age. I bought an 86 that only had 65K original miles, for $1400. When I tore the car down, everything was immaculate. No rust, and only minor hose damage.
The money you would spend to make a front engine car work for your build would far outweigh the cost of a strech on the Fiero. Most builders only charge around $1600 to strech the Fiero, re-hook everything up, re-mount the radiator, and mount the body to the frame, with all the reinforcements req'd. Remember, when you strip and strech the Fiero, theres not much left of the original car. If you can find a car that has never been in an accident, or has only sustained body damage, you'll be in great shape from the start of the build. After its streched and reinforced, you'll have a frame that is good for another 30-40 years with no problems.
After I stripped my car and pressure washed it, I applied the sound deadening/undercoating paint to everything on the underside of the car, and all the new reinforcements. The frame is much more rigid after the strech, and now its even more protected than when it rolled of the assembly line back in '86. Most Lambo kit cars are designed to be attached to a Fiero. You can mount it to anythiong you like, but you're looking at a very expensive and time consuming build.

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michobebeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 06, 2008 - 09:27 AM
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Ok, so basicaly, you're telling me that it's quite safe to do it!? Though I heard it was risky knowing that you're putting your life in the hand of a majorly modified car structure "that might break" at some point.

My principal concern is that here in canada, it's pain in the ass getting a kit car inspected and approved, after asking I was told that I could leave the car with the exact title it has, as long as I keep the base of the original car "untouched" and then would not need any inspection nor approval.

I'd accept to cut bits of the car's front structure to lower it . If, let's say I start with some small mazda coupe or whatever else, what do you think would be the major things that'll have to be modified other than relocating the radiator? Would the engine itself be a concern?

Thanks for your help and interrest, I really appreaciate it
and I'd like to hear others opinion about the idea, has anyone done it?
 
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michobebeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 07, 2008 - 03:46 AM
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I'm thinking seriously about the Pontiac sunfire 1995-2005 as a donner since it has a low thin nose and wheelbase is less than an inch different.
Here's a picture to illustrat what I mean: Shocked
[img=http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2299/sunfiremurcielagoxd3.th.jpg]

Do you think that if I could get the suspension lowered enough to the level of the murcielago will the sunfire's engine components fit into the murcielago body?

Thanks for leaving your opinion guys
 
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chrisbarbersOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 07, 2008 - 09:27 AM
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It is usual with most front engined cars to have FWD also, if you were to lower the sunfire enough to get the wheels to the right height for a Murci replica body then you would probably find that the engine would have to poke out of the hood in order to get the right angles on the driveshafts and and steering rack.

I don't balme you for trying but if you are going to get anything front engined to work then it will need to be an engine that is tranversely mounted in the front i.e. front to back between the wheels, rather than down the centre of the body, that way you can get the narrower part of the engine in the limited space you would have, however that will present it's own problems with transmission.

The Ferraris as we have seen can work with front engines, but that is generally because the Fs have much longer noses than Lambo's.

Remember that as well as the engine up front you need space for your legs etc. Lambos have very short steeply raked noses that's why there isn't a Pug 406 Coupe conversion for the Murci.

The Fiero certainly fits the bill well, my SV is based on one, if you have any concerns about it splitting in two get a professional to do the work.
 
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michobebeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 07, 2008 - 05:08 PM
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Thank's so much for the answer Very Happy , didn't thought about that at all. Shocked

Is there any rear or mid mounted engine car other than the fiero that'll have closer wheelbase to the murci? As I mention I prefer not to stretch a car or i'll be running into deep problems getting the car inspected and approved Confused . I'm not really into front engine cars, but it seems the only way for not having to modify (stretch) the structure of a rear engine car.

You pointed problems about transmission in tranversely mounted engine cars with FWD what is that problem exactly?, If I were to use RWD car will those be resolved?

Thanks again for your help
 
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Bra1nd3adOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 07, 2008 - 08:07 PM
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Have you considered a Countach? There are quite a few of them out there that are shorter than the original to perfectly fit on a Fiero which does not require any streching and still looks good.
 
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michobebeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 07, 2008 - 10:51 PM
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I never though about the countach really, but I would honestly prefer to work on a diablo or murcielago, since countach is becomming a bit older now (I respect those who like it) but it's becoming sort of a nostalgic kit for those who grew up with it, as is the Miura. Plus I have access here to a murcielago to get it molded.
So, do I understand that the only way to get this job is through a fiero? Confused Man i'll have major problems getting it approved!
Does anyone got a suggestion for a car that'll work without major problems and without having to stretch it other than the fiero? Sad Question
Please guys I'm starting to feel desperate Sad
Tnx
 
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michobebeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 09, 2008 - 08:42 PM
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Any Idea guys, just leave a quite opinion about the front mounted engin project cause that'll help a lot.. I just can't stretch a fiero as I mentioned.. for legal reasons

by the way... isn't the sunfire's 4cyl a transverse mounted engine? so it could basicaly work if I understood what chrisbarbers said?

don't just read and pass-by please guys.. I'm waiting for a good idea to start the project
thnx guys..
 
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MsabyOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 09, 2008 - 10:48 PM
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There is a manufacture in think in Ohio that makes a Diablo that fits the stock Fiero wheelbase. I think it is called the mirage X or something. It a short version of the diablo obviously it is inaccurate but has many of the diablo styling queues.

I found the link http://www.euroworksexotics.com/

Mike
 
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t.doyle11Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 09, 2008 - 10:49 PM
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I think some one was working on the dodge neon or was it a chevy cobalt and keeping it as a four seater for the Murcielago. but if you wanted to you could block off the other two seats. I'll find some post

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rxquonOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 10, 2008 - 05:59 AM
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Since there is no apparent desire to use a Fiero, would the licensing requirements for the use of a custom chassis be better in Canada??? With a custom chassis, you would be able to build the vehicle with a greater choice of powertrains and other options. Just a thought.....
 
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michobebeOffline
12 Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 10, 2008 - 07:45 AM
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Thanks for the Mirage website, I'll look into the neon to verify dimensions. For a custum chassis as I mentionned to problem is getting any modification approved as the process for any non original car is considered as an artistic work, everything but not if you modify exterieor pannels et glass, see what I mean Wink That's why a custom chassis or stretched fiero are very hard to use for a kit car and I'd rather stick with the fiero if I could!
Thnx guys keep the ideas poppin' Very Happy
 
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RTOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 10, 2008 - 02:09 PM
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Take a look at a Subaru. They have a flat-four engine AND all wheel drive. You might have to make mods to the top of the engine by moving some accessories but the engine is very low. There is even an older sport model with a flat-six. They also have both automatic and standard transmissions.
There is a lot of aftermarket performance parts for their engines.
RT

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michobebeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 10, 2008 - 10:12 PM
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Nice one! that's a prety nice suggestion! a flax six that's almost luxury to me Wink hehe What model and year do you mean exactly or is it just i general.. man that'll be perfect if the wheelbase is right! Mr. Green
 
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