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gwaderOffline
22 Post subject: 3800 water flow problems  PostPosted: Oct 27, 2008 - 01:45 AM
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My water system isn't flowing correctly and the temp is going up. I first noticed fluid coming out of from around the water pump seal two days ago.

First I thought by added my hoses to the vintage air heater. The flow "IN" solenoid may not be working.

Then I decided to unhook those lines and just add a loop hose. Same thing happened. I felt the loop hose getting hotter after a few minutes, but the other hoses remained cool. This makes me think the pump is still working.

Expect the return line"red in the pic", which could be getting hot from the motor heat.

Could the inlet be clogged, could the thermostat be broken? Any ideas before I go crazy?

I thought the thermostat would be the cheapest a easiest to fix.

Thanks..
Greg

 
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dleachOffline
Post subject: RE: 3800 water flow problems  PostPosted: Oct 27, 2008 - 02:30 AM
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Greg, It seems to me that either the flow arrows are reversed (but I think not) or the red and blue (hot and cooled) labels are reversed. They don't seem to agree. I think the labels are reversed. But that is only a graphic thing and has nothing to do with how your system functions. Is your overflow tank pressurized? It must be, thats kind of a dumb question.
I'm interested because I am using your diagram as a guide for series flow on my own system. I know I'm not much help but I will continue to follow this thread. I'm mostly asking questions and not able to help people very much. Maybe, down the line, I'll learn enough to help others.

Don
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deweyOffline
Post subject: 3800 water flow problems  PostPosted: Oct 27, 2008 - 02:55 AM
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Greg:
You said your water pump seal was leaking,,, replace the pump
NOW. The heads on that engine crack like glass when run hot and if that
happens your engine will most likley start missing and if you look at your exhaust it will be white smoking. Also on your drawing and on your car
is your day tank or your water reservior higher than your engine and radiators.If not you have air pockets in your engine and this causes super heated steam which will cause it to run very hot,,,also the front of the engine needs to be a little higher than the back so the air bubbles can find
there way to the reservior.If some of your hoses are higher than they should be , put in some bleeders to bleed off the air till water comes out.
When you crank your engine the hose coming off the top of your engine should be hot and the hose coming to the water pump from the radiator
should not be as hot. If it is cold change the thremostst or leave it out for the time being.Hope some of this helps you.Be very careful overheating
this engine , i see more cracked 3800 heads come thru my shop than any other head except maybe Detroit diesels.GM should have made the heads a little thicker on both engines.



Dewey

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jdinnerOffline
Post subject: RE: 3800 water flow problems  PostPosted: Oct 27, 2008 - 11:25 AM
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Greg;
1) Remove the thermostat and retest.
2) Make sure the expansion tank is the highest point.
3) When filling with water, loosen the top rad hose on the passenger side to check for air or water.

I'm sure it is just an air bubble stuck in the engine.

Jim

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gwaderOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 27, 2008 - 05:17 PM
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So I replaced the thermostat last night. HeHe.. when I drilled an taped the new vdo temp sensor next to the OEM installed one. I was just a bit to high and my angle was off. I drill and taped the bottom of the thermostat. Embarassed

I had to grind down a corner and back out the sensor just a little bit to get the new thermostat to fit correctly.

But this still didn't stop the problem. Tonight I'll bleed out the system, then disconnect the inlet at the front of the motor to check for clogs.

I have a new water pump on hand, if it comes to that. $38.99 at Auto zone. I really don't thinking its the problem since the loop hose is getting hot.

Thanks for the input guys.

Greg
 
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MMBRAZILOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 27, 2008 - 08:54 PM
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I would say its air. I changed coolant And I left air inside, The temperature rose fast and high.

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gwaderOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 28, 2008 - 06:27 PM
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Last night I unhooked the air lines at the top of each rad to see water flow. Still getting no flow.

I've failed to mention earlier a noise I think I've heard in the past but it's been a long time. A shutter/ rubbing metal noise coming from the water pump area. I think its the sound of a bad water pump.

What do you guys think?

G

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dBOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 29, 2008 - 02:18 AM
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Hi Greg:

Here's the layout I have right now. I am going to add a better surge tank and get the petcocks at the top of the Rads hooked up to the surge tank. I have added 3 gallons of fluid to it since I have been driving. I think I may still have air in there.

[img]


dB.....................
 
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deweyOffline
Post subject: 3800 water flow problems  PostPosted: Oct 29, 2008 - 03:25 AM
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Greg:
The impellers come loose on the shaft some times and make a tremendous noise. I thought you were going to replace it the other night?


Dewey

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gwaderOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 29, 2008 - 05:56 PM
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Wait a minute. dB your cold fluid goes into the thermostat,then through motor and out to the rads? My arrows on my drawing much be backwards. Or am I going crazy? I started install but decided to take the night off. Tonight!

G


 
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dBOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 29, 2008 - 07:06 PM
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Hi:

I would not rely on the color of the tubes to identify HEAT, but the plumbing is correct as shown.

I have not finished the sketch yet for overflow and HEAT.


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rodrieguzOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 29, 2008 - 10:10 PM
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Greg I had the same problem were I thought my water wasn't flowing correctly. I have a 3800 NA and these engines do not like heat. i know you have a supercharged but it should be the same. For me I added a corevtte expantion tank. You have to get all the steam/air out of the lines/engine.
The way I did mine may not be the best but it worked and I haven't had an issue since and I've driven all year.
When the 3800 starts to run hot it will idle irradically ( remove the thermostat first) @ that point shut the car off and loosen the rad cap, this will let all the steam/air out. once it cools to were you can open it fill with rad fluid. Repeat this until car stiops running hot.
reinstall the thermostat once maximum fluid level is reached.

Rod

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gwaderOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 30, 2008 - 02:17 AM
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What? Ok.... take out the thermostat, then run the system. Let system cool, reinstall thermostat, finally refill. If I reinstall the thermostat won't I be puring a lot of fluid out of the engine and the hose that goes to top of the driver side rad. In turn creating another air bubble?

Or I guess it will only drain the driver rad down to the bottom of the pipe, Then when I refill from the expansion tank. The fluid will drain down through the expansion airlines and over to fill up the emptied hose.

Does that should right?

G
 
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rodrieguzOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 30, 2008 - 03:02 AM
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gwader wrote:
What? Ok.... take out the thermostat, then run the system. Let system cool, reinstall thermostat, finally refill. If I reinstall the thermostat won't I be puring a lot of fluid out of the engine and the hose that goes to top of the driver side rad. In turn creating another air bubble?

Or I guess it will only drain the driver rad down to the bottom of the pipe, Then when I refill from the expansion tank. The fluid will drain down through the expansion airlines and over to fill up the emptied hose.

Does that should right?

G



Take the thermastat out, reconnect hose. let the car run till it gets hot, shut the car off twist the fill cap half way to allow the steam to excape, once the car has cooled so that you can remove the cap saftly , remove and fill. Repeat this until you can no longer add fluid to the system. once you can no longer add fluid re-install the thermosatat. You'll go through the motion of letting the car run hot a few times before it's completely full and free of air.
Like I said this worked for me and I had the exact same symton's you described in your first post. My system is set up exactlythe way DB's drawing illustrates

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gwaderOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 30, 2008 - 05:39 PM
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Should I hold off on installing the new pump until I do this.

Thanks

Greg

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