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swittaOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 29, 2009 - 11:09 PM
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yes i did get it .

i still say in series on the eml although i did do my testing with one single bulb and it seamed fine ? but i just thought i would use the oem EML bulbs wired they way they were .
i know there is a resistance issue with the bulbs or it will run in limp mode .
there is two wires for the EML 17 and 18 on the x-21 but if you look at page 1374-07 you will see they go to the same pin # 12 on the x-6004

i would throw out the idea of using the engine speed wire solid black for tach and just use one wire off one coil and set tach to six cylinder .
that wire would not work for the tach on mine but you guys are dealing with the first model dme's so it may work but i doubt it ?

that black with the white stripe is you VSS and that has not been confirmed by dinner if just grounding it on your year will work ? it did for matsh .
mine had the EMK box for the VSS , that was a pain to figure out .

your very close !

Dave

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Wile_E.Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 30, 2009 - 01:51 AM
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OK. I will abandon the Engine Speed wire and go off the coil. I think that is what Dinner did as well.

The VSS wire splits into three. Two of the wires go to the gauge pod and the third goes to a module inside the frame of the drivers footwell. The module is titled "Servotronic" and the wire goes in a location titled "Tacho". I think this may be my VSS signal. I will post a pic.

When the engine is "on" but not running, the VSS wire reads 12 on the volt meter. When the engine is "running" the VSS wire reads 7.5 on the volt meter. I will run the test again because it is difficult to do a volt test and operate the throttle control with your hands all at the same time. Also, when I did this test, it was the first time I noticed the throttle position motor humming...so I was distracted.
 
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Flying_RoadsterOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 30, 2009 - 02:15 AM
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What you are calling a TPM, is it about 4"around and about 4"tall? The reason I ask is my Z3 had a motor that sounded like a hair drier, and the shop told me it was to do with the Emissions.

I wasn't sure if this is the same item. If it is the shop said if it wasn't replaced it would just run a little rich. They said why it sounded like that was the internal bearing going out.

GW

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Wile_E.Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 30, 2009 - 02:31 AM
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Yes, I think we are talking about the same thing. If you go back one page and look at the picture of my engine, it is that throttle body mounted on the left end of the intake manifold.
 
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swittaOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 30, 2009 - 02:39 AM
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Wile_E. wrote:
OK. I will abandon the Engine Speed wire and go off the coil. I think that is what Dinner did as well.

The VSS wire splits into three. Two of the wires go to the gauge pod and the third goes to a module inside the frame of the drivers footwell. The module is titled "Servotronic" and the wire goes in a location titled "Tacho". I think this may be my VSS signal. I will post a pic.

When the engine is "on" but not running, the VSS wire reads 12 on the volt meter. When the engine is "running" the VSS wire reads 7.5 on the volt meter. I will run the test again because it is difficult to do a volt test and operate the throttle control with your hands all at the same time. Also, when I did this test, it was the first time I noticed the throttle position motor humming...so I was distracted.


that could be the box you need ? if there are wires that run out of it to the VSS sensor on the rear axle KEEP THAT BOX . it converts the square pulse then sends that signal to the computers same as my EKM box does .
that may be the ticket wile for the VSS .

now you have me interested in that ? it would be nice to know how both models of dme's work for the VSS

Dave

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Wile_E.Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 30, 2009 - 03:40 AM
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This is the module. You can see the black wire with the white stripe by my thumb (This is the VSS wire to the X20). The green wire with the white stripe usually goes to a fuse. The brown wire with the black stripe I have traced as a ground.The grey wire and the black wire goes to the front so I am thinking this module is for the speed sensitive steering which is adjusted by the signal from the VSS wire.
 
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swittaOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 30, 2009 - 04:20 AM
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it shows the Servotronic on page 6200-03 the black with white stripe does go to the dme's and to the instrument cluster .
6200-04 shows the VSS sensor going to the instrument cluster .

it's all on pages 6200-03 through 6200-05 .

looks to me like the VSS signal is converted in the instrument cluster then out to the dme's ?

so i am still confused on what the Servotronic box does ?


Dave

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Wile_E.Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 30, 2009 - 04:44 AM
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Maybe I will keep the instrument cluster and just shove it in the trunk and still use it to convert the VSS signal. LOL

My guess is the Servotronic module takes the speed signal from the VSS wire and controls the power steering with more power steering at slow speeds and less power steering at high speeds. It is all on pg. 3240-00.
 
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Wile_E.Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Aug 15, 2009 - 09:44 PM
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I did some volt tests on the VSS wire (pin 14, X20) and the Engine Speed wire (pin 20, X20). I admit that I don't have a full understanding of electronics. So, I assumed that if I disconnect a wire, one side would go dead and the other side would provide a reading. That is not the case. So for this post I will just cover the volt reading on the VSS wire.

With the wire connected and in normal operation the volts read; ignition off = 7.3, ignition aux = .16, ignition on = 9.9, and ignition running = 11.9

With the VSS wire disconnected and the engine running at idle, the wire on the X20 side reads 11.2 and the gauge pod side of the wire reads 12.8

With the VSS wire disconnected and the engine being throttled, the wire on the X20 side reads 11.15 and decreases to 11.10 as the throttle increases. The gauge pod side of the wire reads 11.9 constant as the throttle increases.

So what does this mean? Instead of grounding the VSS wire, shouldn't I connect it to a constant 12 volt source?

I have not tested the volts while the car is moving but I don't think that will be necessary as long as the engine thinks it is always in park and I can still rev it to the redline.
 
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jdinnerOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Aug 16, 2009 - 01:49 PM
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You are going to need to spin the wheels to make the VSS sensor produce it's signal. IT COULD, signal the 14/X20 to ground making it pulse that wire.

I am still stumped on this too. I made a speed sensor out of one of the GM S-10 wheel bearing ABS sensors aimed at the Audi axle bolts. It works great with the VDO gauge.

I still have not tested the car at a constant road speed to see if I even need the VSS on pin 14. If I do, I am going to test it by connecting to the back of the VDO gauge at the converted signal pins.

If it does not work I am going to have to find a 1991 BMW and remove the dash gauge panel.

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jdinnerOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Aug 16, 2009 - 01:55 PM
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lotusrossOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Aug 19, 2009 - 02:22 AM
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Jim - are you having the same problem as I am - it won't rev?

I bought a Peake Research tool the other day - I am waitng for it to arrive and then I am plugging it in.

Jason.
 
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jdinnerOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Aug 19, 2009 - 12:53 PM
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My car has no known problems right now. I am just worried about how it will perform under load while driving at road speed.

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Wile_E.Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Aug 19, 2009 - 08:52 PM
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Jim and I are using the same year engine. So far with all of my testing and disconnecting wires, I have not sent my engine into limp mode. I am wondering if with our computers we do not need the VSS wire. I am going to disconnect everything just as Jims wire charts indicate and drive the car around the neighborhood to see if it goes into limp mode. I have been waiting to pull the engine because I want to be sure I have the VSS problem solved.
 
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Wile_E.Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Aug 28, 2009 - 04:06 AM
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I connected the volt meter to the VSS wire and drove around taking readings. Throughout the RPM range, the volts bounce around 10.15 to 11.80. It does not increase or decrease with speed or RPM, it just bounces around.

Disconnected, the wire shows volt readings from both ends. The X20 side continues bouncing around like when it is connected but the range changes to 11.05 to 11.15. On the gauge side of the wire, the volts do drop with engine speed. At idle the volts read 12.8 as you drive, the volts drop to 10.3 at cruising at 3000 RPM, the volts hold at 11.5.

So, what does this mean? I have no "f"ing idea. What I do know is that the whole time I was running these tests with the wire disconnected (about 20 minutes) the car never went into limp mode. Im thinking the VSS has nothing to do with limp mode in the '91 models.

I am going to continue disconnecting wires per Jims wire chart and driving the car.
 
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