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intradomeOffline
Post subject: LS1 not turning  PostPosted: Apr 29, 2011 - 11:57 PM
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I have LS1 in my build. Never fired it up yet. Took all parts out of the car to paint the chassis. Before putting the engine back in the chassis I decided to test it if it will turn by starter. So with transmission removed, I connected charged up power jump starter, starter solenoid pops up and teeth from starter lines up with teeth from flexplate; however the engine doesn't turn.

I removed all the spark plugs and i am able to turn the engine by hand (2 hands actually), should i be able to turn with one hand easly?

When i bench test starter it seems to work fine. It is brand new starter.

Any ideas what should I do, or how to test?

I assume I am able to tunr the engine like that using starter without engine being actually connected to any other devices, such as batter, fuel pump etc?

Sebastian

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intradomeOffline
Post subject: RE: LS1 not turning  PostPosted: Apr 30, 2011 - 12:03 AM
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not sure if this will make any difference, but i got this engine about 2 years and it was "siiting" in my garage.

S.

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dleachOffline
Post subject: RE: LS1 not turning  PostPosted: Apr 30, 2011 - 01:44 PM
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Could it be that the solenoid responds to the input power but doesn't actually close the contact so that power can go to the starter?
Just trying to analyze the conditions. It seems like the solenoid must, in some way, be the problem.

Don
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dBOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 30, 2011 - 05:10 PM
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Hi:

I just had all the plugs out of my V-8 and I could readily turn the engine over to find TDC by using a screw driver on flywheel teeth to adjust position. I used on hand and a 9" screw driver.

The engine ha serpentine drive with A/C, P/S, Alt, water pump and fuel pump drag.

If the starter and solenoid is working and the engine is stiff or frozen, the starter motor is going to get real hot real quick in a stall condition.

I have used DC motors at work about this size and they can pull 125 -175 amps on 12 VDC line.


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dleachOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 30, 2011 - 05:49 PM
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Right, if the motor is stiff and the starter is energized but not turning the motor, you would hear the motor humming and it would get hot very fast.

Don
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EAMartinOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 30, 2011 - 06:18 PM
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You said that the starter teeth are lined up with the flywheel teeth. Does the solenoid actually move the drive out so that the starter gear engages with the ring gear? If not then your starter solenoid is bad. If it does and the starter does not turn then do as the other posters have said and see if the starter motor hums but does not turn. If it does than the engine is stuck. If you can turn it at all by hand the starter should turn it. If not maybe the starter motor is just weak. Try a different starter.
 
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intradomeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: May 01, 2011 - 03:35 AM
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Thanks guys for some good advice here. Today I was babysitting, same tomorrow. So it will have to wait til the week to test.

Erik, I am using the mini starter you suggested with your adapter to cayman trans. The first starter I got from summit didn't even engage the solenoid. So I had to return it and got this one instead. Since I got the replacement one I only bench test it. Solenoid was engaging and starter was turning, so I assumed it was working. Never thought it could have a weak motor inside. I will test this coming week, to hear even if the starter if humming, when trying to turn the flexplate. I was also thinking to use a fully charge battery instead of fully charged jump starter unit.
I am able to turn the engine by hand. Again not sure how easy that should be but i can turn using two hands. Should it be super easy, so you can turn using one hand? Keep in mind I have removed all spark plugs already.

When you say the starter will get hot very fast, wont that damage the starter?

Sebastian

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jdinnerOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: May 01, 2011 - 11:50 AM
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What are you using for a battery?
If the starter is humming and getting hot, yes it is causing damage.
The mini starters usually have adjustable mounting, is this the case?
If it is too close to the ring gear it could be getting stuck.

With a test light during crank check to see if current is traveling from the battery terminal of the starter solenoid to the other large terminal on the solenoid, this is the terminal that makes the motor spin.

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EAMartinOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: May 01, 2011 - 07:10 PM
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What are you using to turn the engine? Even with all of the plugs out it will still require some effort to turn with a socket and 1/2 inch breaker bar. I suspect that it is your starter.
 
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intradomeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: May 02, 2011 - 04:54 AM
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Jim,

That's what I said at the beginning. I don't have battery. I am using jump starter unit. Do you think that's not enough cranking amps? I would user the battery next time.
Yes this mini starter has adjustable mounting case.
The ring gear was getting stuck at the beginning, however i adjusted the flexplate and the teeth on flexplate were aligning with teeth on starter.

Erik,
I am using just 2 of my hands. I grabbed your adapter that is attached to flexplate, put some effort and turn it.

Sebastian

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rodrieguzOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: May 02, 2011 - 01:55 PM
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not enough juice to the starter, motor is not siezed if you're able to tun by hand

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dleachOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: May 02, 2011 - 05:28 PM
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I agree. Just like when you have an almost dead battery; the solenoid engages but the starter won't turn the motor over

Don
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Post subject:   PostPosted: May 02, 2011 - 05:51 PM
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My V8 was started and then started to get stiff and not turn at all. No oil preasure due to dry oil inside for sitting too long.......now the motor is opened and have to rebuilt. So first do some cleaning and have a oil gauge attached, always

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intradomeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: May 02, 2011 - 07:29 PM
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Marcel,

I am able to turn by hand, but never fired it yet. The engine was "sitting" for 2 years. What do i need to do to make sure I dont have to rebuild it like you? Make sure it has good level of fresh oil+filter? I read somewhere to add some oil into spark plug holes, to get some lubrication there as well.
Any other suggestions?

Sebastian

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EAMartinOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: May 02, 2011 - 08:22 PM
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intradome wrote:
Marcel,

I am able to turn by hand, but never fired it yet. The engine was "sitting" for 2 years. What do i need to do to make sure I dont have to rebuild it like you? Make sure it has good level of fresh oil+filter? I read somewhere to add some oil into spark plug holes, to get some lubrication there as well.
Any other suggestions?

Sebastian


There was something written about this in the latest issue of Street Rodder. They recommended spraying a fogging oil (Amsoil has such a product) into the spark plug holes, letting it sit for 20 minutes or so and then turning the engine over. Have fresh oil in the engine and crank without the plugs until you get oil pressure. I think you just don't have enough current to the starter.
 
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