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dBOffline
Post subject: LOSS OF POWER AND ENGINE WENT HOT  PostPosted: May 30, 2011 - 10:02 PM
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Joined: May 29, 2004
Posts: 1273
Location: Milton, WI.
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Hi:

Man, I thought we had this whipped. Crying or Very sad

I installed new e-Brakes and hardware after breaking a spring and trashing the e-Brakes on passenger side. This is 2x in 300 miles.

So the test drive started out well at 87F and nice power and response.
After about 20 minutes, the temp started to climb and I juiced the throttle and the RPMs jumped to 5k and the speed stayed constant, no clutch smell.

At about 30 minutes, the temp was 212F and holding. When I tapped the throttle the rpms go up but no speed increase.

NOW FOR THE SERIOUS PART.
At 40 minutes of driving the temp is moving up to 220F and I am headed home to land this wounded bird. When setting at the light I moved forward and there was rpm but hardly any power to move the car at all. I crept home the last 2 miles at 5 mph and got it in the garage.


I am at a loss of what to look for at this point. Is this just a too lean condition on the carb?

dB.............
 
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jdinnerOffline
Post subject: RE: LOSS OF POWER AND ENGINE WENT HOT  PostPosted: May 30, 2011 - 10:17 PM
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Is your clutch slipping? This could cause heat and thus temperature increases.

What rads are you using again?
Series or parallel?
Expansion tank or rad cap in the line?
Rad vent tubes on both sides?
Stat housing vent tube?
Exhaust wrapped or not?

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MMBRAZILOffline
Post subject: RE: LOSS OF POWER AND ENGINE WENT HOT  PostPosted: May 30, 2011 - 10:17 PM
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RPM up and no foward move with out misfire, this seems to be a clutch problem. What setup motor/transmition are you using? isnt your clutch sliping?

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RTOffline
Post subject: RE: LOSS OF POWER AND ENGINE WENT HOT  PostPosted: May 30, 2011 - 10:31 PM
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The excess heat could be expanding the clutch fluid causing pressure to make the clutch slip. Check to see if the hydraulic lines for the clutch are close to a heat source. Check around the exhaust headers and close to water lines.

Also, the water flow should be from the engine into the top of the radiator and out the bottom of the radiator back to the engine. If they are connected in series (out of one rad - into the second and back to the engine) the bottom outlet of the first radiator should connect to the top of the second radiator, not the bottom. If you use an electric water pump to assist water flow, place it between the radiators to pump the water out of the bottom of the first radiator into the top of the second. Then return the water to the engine.
If that is the way you have it, check to see if the water level is full and there are no pinched hoses or lines.

Let us know how you make out.

RT

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dleachOffline
Post subject: RE: LOSS OF POWER AND ENGINE WENT HOT  PostPosted: May 30, 2011 - 11:58 PM
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The cooling system is a closed loop; water pump location is not a factor unless you are low on coolant. If the pump is located relatively high and coolant is low, the pump could be cavitating.
It sounds like a cascade of events. Overheating first, then other things as a result..

Don
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dBOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 01, 2011 - 03:50 AM
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Joined: May 29, 2004
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Location: Milton, WI.
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Hi Guys:

Well, let's see if I can answer all the replys:

Is your clutch slipping?
- I do not think so, there is no smell.

What rads are you using again?
- Griffon Quad Core made for this application

Series or parallel?
- Series. Into the top on Driver's side. Out the bottom and into the top of the Pass side. Out the Pass side bottom into the Meziere electric water pump. Into the block pump.
- Had same issue with no electric pump.

Expansion tank or rad cap in the line?
- Rad cap hi location with a bleed line to Expansion tank.

Rad vent tubes on both sides?
- Pass side has petcock on top.
- This was plumbed to input into Expansion tank.

Stat housing vent tube?
- Not sure what this is

Exhaust wrapped or not?
- Yes, I could be the poster child for Thermo-Tec wrap.

Engine / Motor
- 350 SBC Engine mounted Audi 016 AAZ

Timing?
- 14+ with no vacuum
- 26+ with full vacuum
- 30+ full centrifugal


dB.........................
 
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jdinnerOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 01, 2011 - 10:52 AM
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You will need to cut the top rad hose on the drivers side and insert a short tube with a 1/4" NPT port on it so it can be vented also.
If you pressurize the cooling system now and then loosen the top rad hose clamp I'll bet you get air.
Is the top of the block vented?
Get rid of your thermostat, if only to test the operation without one.

RT is dead on too. If the exhaust is too close to the clutch lines or slave cylinder it will start to do strange things.

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dBOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 02, 2011 - 01:05 AM
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Hi,

The radiator line out of the block hits a high point.
In the middle of this high point is a 4" piece of tube with a rad cap and a bleed line that goes to the bottom of the expansion tank to allow air to bubble up and out.
The cap is a 16_18 psi cap.

I will look at the hydraulic clutch line.
The oil filter is about 2" from header collector to main LT exhaust tube to muffler.
All the exhaust is all wrapped in Thermo_Tec wrap.

The expansion tank overflow goes to a catch can and it is full to the brim.

I have used a 190F thermostat and now have a 165F thermostat in it.
I did not see any major changes.

I am not sure about venting the top of the block?
Where, how and why would this be done?

dB.............
 
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EAMartinOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 02, 2011 - 03:58 AM
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The highest point in your engine is probably the coolant crossover in the intake manifold. If you can tap in there somewhere and run that to the expansion tank it will allow any steam pockets that accumulate to be eliminated. Steam pockets in the engine will allow for overheating as the coolant won't flow properly and steam won't transfer heat as the coolant will.
 
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jdinnerOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 02, 2011 - 04:47 AM
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EAMartin wrote:
The highest point in your engine is probably the coolant crossover in the intake manifold. If you can tap in there somewhere and run that to the expansion tank it will allow any steam pockets that accumulate to be eliminated. Steam pockets in the engine will allow for overheating as the coolant won't flow properly and steam won't transfer heat as the coolant will.


Yes,Yes, Yes.

Try filling a 2 liter soda bottle while it is upside down under water. The air in the top needs to go somewhere.

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dBOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 02, 2011 - 01:35 PM
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The radiator fill point is about 3" above manifold.
Should you always be able to run the engine at idle with the cap off?

I tried several times to watch the flow and then a big surge comes thru and it spews out the opening. I thought this might be air but I do have that 55gpm water pump pushing things.

I am well aware of the steam pocket issue and its lack of cooling ability. The air is 23x less effective as a coolant than water.


dB...............
 
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dleachOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 02, 2011 - 03:54 PM
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This is just a thought. Why do you need the extra pump? Could you be moving the water too fast: creating turbulence and not smooth, high volume flow. The coolant does need time to absorb the heat and dissipate it in the radiators.

Going back to the flathead Ford days of my youth...lol:
When we first started "hopping up" the Ford engines, cooling was a major problem when running the engines at high rpm (high in those days was 6,000 rpm). The conventional wisdom from Southern California,the source of of all knowledge in those days, was to cut two blades off of each water pump. Flatheads had two pumps (with four little impeller blades each) at the fro nt of the block. We dutiful followed the suggestion of our SC brethern and, voila, no more cooling problems.
This is just "food for thought" and doesn't address the no power problem. It is obvious that you have a "cascade of events" and not a single problem.

Don
Building a 6.0
 
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AdrianBurtonOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 02, 2011 - 04:51 PM
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Try drilling a 1/8th inch hole in the side of the stat and lift the rear of the car caues it sounds like air is still in the system.

Do you have acces to a temp scanner? check the temp at each rad to see if the coolant is flowing thru the system.

You might also check your fuel, running lean can cause you to heat up like you have described.

Do you have a cat in your exhaust? It could be clogged if you were running to rich

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gwaderOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 02, 2011 - 06:00 PM
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I added a extra rad cap filler to the "IN" hose, before the manifold just under the back engine cover. It made bleeding the system 100x easier.

G
 
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dBOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 02, 2011 - 07:02 PM
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Joined: May 29, 2004
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Hi,

The t-stat already has a hole drilled in it from previous inquiries.
I have previously jacked up the car to do an air bleed.

One note is that the top of the Pass radiator had a pet cock. Now it has a hard drain line into the bottom of the expansion tank.

I saw the overflow tank was full and the expansion tank was empty after the run.
I am wondering if I am just pumping the system dry due to a plumbing or routing issue.

dB............
 
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