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dBOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 13, 2011 - 01:16 AM
KitCentral Fellow


Joined: May 29, 2004
Posts: 1273
Location: Milton, WI.
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Hi:

Is the Tie into the heater hose line ok?
And the bleed line on the fill point is below the cap relief.
This means the Fill point cap would have to hit 17 psi and then air could bleed out the line.

I am not familiar with the closed system cap construction, but I think I would have to drill a hole in that rad cap to allow air to bleed all the time to the expansion cap.


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jdinnerOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 13, 2011 - 02:10 AM
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With the closed system nothing goes in nothing goes out. It is closed.
Air is trapped in the top of the expansion tank. During the initial fill process you want to run it until the stat opens and all the air is out of the system. The first 30 minute trip will also expel some more air. This can be seen when the engine cools off and the level is low again. Top it off and you're good to go.

If the engine can be filled with coolant through THAT heater hose then YES it is ok to use.

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dBOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 13, 2011 - 02:33 AM
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Hi,

I am concerned that rhe fill point T up by the firewall is not boing to bleed correctly. It has a Rad cap that must hit pressure then the vent to the Expansion tank is accessible.

So the closed cap addresses this or I drill a small hole in the moveable flange on the cap.

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jdinnerOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 13, 2011 - 11:10 AM
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Is it possible to drill and thread (or solder) a port beside the cap fitting?
That would be ideal.

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dBOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 14, 2011 - 03:19 AM
KitCentral Fellow


Joined: May 29, 2004
Posts: 1273
Location: Milton, WI.
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Hi Guys:

Tonight's Data is:
- Fill Point bleed line coming into top LT side of Expansion Tank
- Pass Rad bleed line coming into top RT side of Expansion Tank.
- Heater Hose Suction T-Ftg into bottom of Expansion Tank
- Overflow at top of Expansion tank
- 18psi Cap on Expansion Tank
- 16psi Cap on Fill Point
- Slots cut into Rad cap flange to bleed air into bleed line on the Fill Point Cap
- The J-Dadapter machined but not installed yet. Awaiting 1.5" Aluminum Tubing

THERMAL DATA (based on 70*F Ambient)
90*C on Gage = 70*C on TC @ 17 min 1,000 rpm idle
100*C on Gage = 80*C on TC @ 22 min 1,000 rpm idle
110*C on Gage = 85*C on TC @ 27 min 1,000 rpm idle
105*C on Gage = 84*C on TC @ 32 min 1,000 rpm idle

Overflow tank did not show a level change.
I will check levels once it cools down.

There are new photos on the Flickr page for this set up.


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jdinnerOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 14, 2011 - 10:53 AM
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Does your front rad cap have a gasket on the top of it?
Did you have good pressure building in the system?
You need to drive it to see what is really going too.

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dBOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 14, 2011 - 12:06 PM
KitCentral Fellow


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Location: Milton, WI.
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The Fill Point cap has a gasket under the cap but not the moveable part with the air slots.
Yes, I believe sufficient psi was being made, After I did the run, about 20 minutes later I tried to open the Expansion Tank and there was a very heavy hiss trying to unscrew it.

It was getting late last night and I did not make a run in the dark after major plumbing changes.

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jdinnerOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 15, 2011 - 03:17 AM
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Sounds good! Install the left side bleeder and it should work just fine

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dBOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 15, 2011 - 03:57 AM
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Hi,

Tonight's data on a second static run is:

THERMAL DATA
0 min 20C TC1, 20C TC2, 40C Gage (min value)
5 min 50C TC1, 54C TC2, 55C Gage
10 min 66C TC1, 69C TC2, 80C Gage
15 min 75C TC1, 72C TC2, 90C Gage
20 min 90C TC1, 73C TC2, 100C Gage
25 min 93CTC1, 74C TC2, 110C Gage
30 min 93C TC1, 74C TC2, 115C Gage
Measurements taken at Thermostat outlet port on manifold in a pool of fluid (very conductive)

What we learned,
_ Some solutions helped
_ Dash gage has a major error, +40C
_ Thermocouple 1 has error, +20C
_ Thermocouple 2 is spot on 165F that the Thermostat is at. Recently calibrated TC2.
_ Whatever is causing Water Temp gage error may be affecting Fuel Level that never goes above 5/8 and Oil psi is too high. This may be a grounding issue.

Still looking at doing a road trip to check results on temperature.

Will still have issue of engine power loss or slip to study.

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dBOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 21, 2011 - 02:42 AM
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Hi Guys:

Hope you all had a happy Father's Day!

Well, The J-Dadapter is installed and plumbed in correctly.
I have new photos on my Flicker acct. (see previous link)
I believe I have them all public view now.

The 30 minute run at 1K rpm was 105C on Gauge with 80F ambient.
I believe this is an improvement in what the gauge reads but is still high compared to fluid bed on Manifold which is still 165F or Thermostat temperature.

I measured the resistance coming off the sensor and it was 40 OHM which is still high.
Tech support states 543 OHM = 40C and 22 OHM is 120C.

This is using the brand new sensor.
So, either there is an air pocket getting super hot at the sensor or the lead wire to gauge or gauge is goofy.

I will run it again tomorrow and then get the sheet metal panels cover up around the Rad.

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dleachOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 21, 2011 - 06:45 AM
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Can you disconnect the gauge in the panel and connect another gauge externally to see if it is the gauge that is goofy? That is such a fundamental issue, it seems that it could be easily resolved. IOW, it is a variable which is easily eliminated.

Don
Building a 6.0
 
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jdinnerOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 21, 2011 - 11:15 AM
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Is that the gauge and sending unit you got with the D&R kit?

I think I am having an issue with my gauge too.
Last night it was reading 200F, I turned the engine off and immediately restarted it and then the gauge read 180F and stayed there. Very strange.

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dBOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 21, 2011 - 11:55 AM
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Joined: May 29, 2004
Posts: 1273
Location: Milton, WI.
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Hi,

I originally had the VDO gauges from D&R but traded them for a full set of refaced gauges from ASCC. I believe the sending unit is the one that came with the ASCC set. I recently replaced it but no change.

I do have a 3rd sender that that uses a 2nd sender terminal as a separate ground.
Low voltage to gauge or a bad ground will really cause strange effects according VDO tech support.

I plan to get a 2nd run into tonight and possibly swap senders to the 2 terminal type.
BTW: The resistance range is a linear function according to Tech Support. So I made a chart of resistance vs temperature to see what is going on.


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dBOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 22, 2011 - 03:40 AM
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Location: Milton, WI.
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Hi:

THE SAGA CONTINUES.

I have finished installing the J-Dadapter and made 2nd run with no leaks.

The new 2 terminal sensor for water temp is installed.
After 30 min running @ 1K rpm the Gauge reads 105C which is not really any different than before.

I will check battery voltage at gauge and ground but this is running out of options.

I may see about an inexpensive water temp gauge to try but that may be the weekend.

I am going to contact VDO Tech support and inquire about the extra $60.00 in sensors that did not do a darn thing.


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dBOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 23, 2011 - 03:54 AM
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Joined: May 29, 2004
Posts: 1273
Location: Milton, WI.
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Hi Guys:

POSSIBLE RESOLUTION!

I took one of the sensors and hooked to to the gauge sensor wire but did not install it in the manifold.
I poured a small amount of fluid in a cavity on the manifold and placed the sensor tip in the fluid bath.

The gauge was grounded by a bare wire wrapped tightly around several threads and tied to chassis ground.

THERMAL DATA:
- 25 min @ 1K rpm was 80C on gauge and 78C on TC #1 (172F)

It appears that the:
- The sensor is good
- The gauge is good
- Wire connecting sensor to gauge is good.
- Voltage to gauge is good
- The ground on sensor is good

Evidently the sensor in the manifold is measuring and extremely hot zone above what the majority of the fluid is. This may be an air pocket around the sensor tip due to the 1/2" NPT to 1/4" NPT adapter fitting.

I may try to machine up another J-Dadapter and place it in there with a bleed line.

That just leaves the slip at heat question to dig into.

I will review the clutch adjustment and free play on pedal.
Anyone know how much freeplay they have?

dB......................
 
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